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Topic: Interfacing wind turbines to the grid (Read 2425 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: Interfacing wind turbines to the grid

Reply #17
Spar, that link you posted is a cool and useful electronic circuit simulator. Thanks.
I’m going to play with that a bit tomorrow.

Ed

Re: Interfacing wind turbines to the grid

Reply #18
Spar, that link you posted is a cool and useful electronic circuit simulator. Thanks.
I’m going to play with that a bit tomorrow.

Ed
I'm with you on the simulator. I have a few at home that I'm going test out on this to see how they do on this.
Nothing fancy just timing circuits.

Bruce S

Re: Interfacing wind turbines to the grid

Reply #19
What if all you did was add a very large capacitor (or a few of them) with a resistor in series to limit charge /discharge amps between positive and negative between the ssr and the micro inverter? Would it smooth the dc power enough that the micro would be happy? Would it store enough that when the mppt swept up it would drop a bit of amps and mimic a solar panel?

Funny you mentioned the SSR just when I was getting frustrated with designing my circuit with a MOSFET, and tonight I've been replacing it with a SSR.

I think I have the microcontroller signals figured out.  What's really bothering me now is that I've made some assumption about the inverter and I don't like the way things go bad if I am wrong.  I've been using Falstad's site to simulate this, and it suggests I will be blasting the 0.5 ohm power resistor with brief bursts of 90 amps.   Probably just something I have simulated wrong, but...

To your suggestion BRCM, yup, a big capacitor soaks up a lot of nuisance noise.  You just have to make sure it doesn't drown out the signal you want to measure.  Circuits that combine resistors and capacitors have a "time constant".  If the constant is long (in the electronics world 1 millisecond is long) then the time for the capacitor to charge up is longer than the time for a 1 kiloHertz signal to arrive, and you probably won't measure the signal.  On the other hand, if the capacitor is too small or ineffective, then the microcontroller is measuring pulses and it may pick up the pulse on the Hi during one reading, and on the Lo on the next.  From the microcontroller's perspective, the signal went from on to off, and in a sense, it would be right.  But in another sense it failed to detect what the power resistors are doing.  It missed the next Hi peak which has a different voltage than the last Hi peak, and that was the information it's looking for.  So there's a balance, when Goldilocks finds the right oatmeal.

It sounds like a thread hijack when I read through it, but it kind of applies to sparweb's setup too.

Nah, you're forgiven

Most resistors have it buried somewhere in the spec sheet for a certain time it can handle an overload...

1.7 Pr 5 s for R < 2 Ω this example is 1.7 times the power rating for 5 seconds for a .5ohm 35watt

If you have a part number or maker/value used I can look up the spec....

Re: Interfacing wind turbines to the grid

Reply #20
...my diversion load is a 500hz 12v signal that goes to a ssr and dumps the 48v battery voltage through an approx 10ohm resistor (water heater element) I assume the 48v comes out of the ssr at 500hz, not exactly as dc.

48v/10 ohms = 4.8 Amps
60v/10 ohms = 6.0 Amps

Hmm surely you'd dump more than that?  I think your WT is bigger than mine is, and I need a 2kW diversion load (and I admit mine turns out to be only 1.8kW).  It may not matter in your case if you're using your batteries most of the time.


Hmm I think it's 1 ohm or a bit more not 10 ohms.  I did the math in my head and that usually means it is wrong.   It dumps approx 2kw at 60v.  The math on that makes 1.8 ohms. 

I also have 3 resistors that dump straight off the 3 phase so when it makes over 2kw, i can still control things.  I don't have any logging on those, so I'm not sure what my peak production is.  4kw maybe.  Anything over 2kw and i start thinking about shutting down or half furling to limit power. 

Re: Interfacing wind turbines to the grid

Reply #21
Success!
My first prototype* did its thing without any magic smoke escaping.

I haven't posted about this for several months because I spent February building the kit and deciding to drastically simplify it compared to the system I described and sketched for you all before.  In late Feb I had parts of it working while I refined the code.  In March the WT started making funny noises and then my charge controller quit. So it's been out of service until this week.  That paused the development of this idea for 3 months. Also, instead of using discrete devices like FETs or SSRs to regulate the battery current, I've chosen to use a buck controller instead.  It got me to the testing phase quickly.

The buck controller converts the 50-60V from the battery into a flat regulated 48.0V.  Feeding a microinverter with that has some limitations (I'll describe later) but for now I'm satisfied that the microinverter won't run away to infinity or go berzerk.  When plugged into 240V AC the microinverter's output went happily to the AC feed in my garage.  I happened to have my car plugged in at the time, meaning that most of the 300W being exported actually went into the car.  :) First time my car was charged from WIND.

The buck converter didn't have any trouble either.  It was windy and as long as wind power was coming in, the battery was at float about 54V feeding the bucker enough that it maintained 48.00V without a twitch.  This sounds great at first but there's a detail that makes this a small problem.  With 6 Amps going through the buck controller it's little fan was running on the heatsink, but its little MOSFETs were below 35C (95F).

Later, while still running the buck converter + microinverter combination, I shut down the wind turbine for a while.  The charge controller stopped, too, and while the microinverter was still running the battery voltage dropped to about 50V.  At that point, the buck converter's output started to sag below 48v.  The microinverter actually responded to this, interestingly.

Microinverters have a start-up procedure that they do every time they start up.  The one I'm using has a 5-minute start where it watches the incoming voltage before it connect any current flow.  It's probably making sure it's not responding to a spurious voltage pulse.  Once current does start to flow, the microinverter varies the current randomly.  It's strange to watch because the current swings from 2 to 6 to 4 to 5 to 3 to 4 to 6 and basically wanders all over the place.  Eventually I figured out that it's building some kind of "performance table" in its memory.  Once it's built the performance table then it knows how the "solar panel" responds to change in current.  This makes sense because solar panels have a varying power curve. Full sun, partial sun, clouds, changing angle during the day, all affect them.  So it seems the microinverter will keep trying to calculate what this performance table looks like until it has one that makes sense and can predict where the MPPT point is.  While it doesn't have a solution to this problem, it keeps shifting current up and down randomly. 

For all the time the buck converter was feeding the microinverter a tightly-regulated 48.00V, the microinverter couldn't do anything with the current that would affect the voltage.  This gave it nothing for the MPPT algorithm to use and it doesn't stop randomly testing the current/voltage changes.  During the time the WT was continuing to charge the battery and it was held at float, the buck converter could maintain its 48.0V, preventing the microinverter to settle into its full power MPPT operation.  Then, when I did shut off the WT, and the battery voltage sagged, this is what allowed the battery voltage, and thus the output of the buck controller to finally start varying with current.  Then the microinverter got the answer it was looking for.  Once that happened, it's output went from fluctuating between 100W to 300W to suddenly rise to a nearly steady 600-630W.

* AKA "box of random bits"
6.5 kW PV solar array + 12k Sol-Ark Inverter
10ft (3m) diameter custom-built wind turbine

Re: Interfacing wind turbines to the grid

Reply #22
I know, I know. "Pics or it didn't happen"

When I started, I really didn't realize how many cables would have to go in and out of this box.  So, yeah, it's out of control.

Wind_Bucker_Guts_1.jpg

Wind_Bucker_Panel_1.jpg
6.5 kW PV solar array + 12k Sol-Ark Inverter
10ft (3m) diameter custom-built wind turbine

 

Re: Interfacing wind turbines to the grid

Reply #23
Watching it functioning for a day, and there are several improvements to be made before a permanent device can be built and trusted to run long-term.

1) Microcontroller is too wimpy to run its built-in relay.  The "Feather" microcontroller is compact, but has a very limited power supply.  Trying to drive a relay (even one designed to be compatible with the Feather) is pushing its ability.  Every fourth power cycle or so, the relay drops out immediately after it pulls in.  The system has to reset and try again.

2) The timing is set up to vary the length of its cycle.  This isn't necessary.  I don't need the potentiometer / adjustment knob.

3) Using a timer to control the time connected is not ideal.  Whatever amount of time is set, there's a situation where the time won't be appropriate.  On a very windy day like this, there is no need to cycle the timer every 20 minutes.  On a gentle wind day, maybe 20 minutes is good.  On a day with no wind, there's still no need for a timer.

4) Orient the control solely to the detection of the diversion load activity.  I've already built this in, and it's a factor in activating the buck controller.  I should exploit this more fully.  Instead of stopping the export with a timer, I can just make the microcontroller monitor the diversion load's activity, and stop the export when the diversion load stops.

5) Plainly obvious cable clean-up!

6) Need a series resistance in the DC cables to the microinverter's MC4 connectors.  I think about 1 Ohm will help the microinverter settle down it's MPPT algorithm into an operational phase.  I see it always stuck in a testing phase where it randomly varies the current.  It's trying to compute a pattern to guide its MPPT program, but with a steadily regulated 48.00v coming out of the buck controller there's no pattern to see.  A 1-Ohm resistor will give it something to lock in on.  Some energy will be wasted as heat, but what's the diversion load doing anyway?
6.5 kW PV solar array + 12k Sol-Ark Inverter
10ft (3m) diameter custom-built wind turbine

Re: Interfacing wind turbines to the grid

Reply #24
Correction.  #6 turns out not to be necessary.  Selecting just the right microinverter may give a unit that is tolerant of 60+VDC.  This eliminates the need for the buck controller.  The system gets MUCH simpler.
6.5 kW PV solar array + 12k Sol-Ark Inverter
10ft (3m) diameter custom-built wind turbine