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Topic: I finally finished my Toshiba motor conversion! (Read 485 times) previous topic - next topic

I finally finished my Toshiba motor conversion!

I'm not kidding.  I never finished it.  I've been using it in my wind turbine for years, but it wasn't done.  I knew it, but I didn't do anything about it.  Until now.

Here's how its rotor looked in 2008 when I stopped working on it:

DSCN7108 - Copy - Copy.JPG

The magnets have slight offsets, but are lined up on the axis of the shaft and secured with screws only.  No skew, no sealant. Then I moved on to do other wind turbine projects, built more motor-conversions, and used those for a long time.  The Toshiba conversion sat on a shelf.  Waiting.

Then in 2021, I did something stupid. While putting the blades on the shaft of the genny I was using at the time (a Baldor motor conversion) I neglected thread locking.  Less than a year later, the blades wiggled themselves off the shaft.  Surprisingly little damage, considering the blades flew free and fell 70 feet down (I was very lucky it wasn't a write-off).  However, the Baldor genny was unusable.  But I did have the spare Toshiba gen...

So the Toshiba was put to service at last, 13 years later.  It's been running for years like this, with 10-foot cedar blades on it, working rather well.  No - the real problem, which I have finally fixed, is that I never FINISHED the Toshiba conversion.  On motor conversions that I finished after the Toshiba, I carefully bonded the magnets in place, and fastened them with screws.  I didn't do that with the Toshiba conversion, probably intending to try various changes (I can't remember now).

Last month the Toshiba started making little grinding noises.  Subtle at first, but impossible to ignore after a week.  I shut it down, lowered the tower, took the blades off, and started inspecting.
Huh, at first I couldn't see anything wrong.  So I put the blades back on, and gave them a free spin...  grind grind grind.  I had to dismantle the wind turbine a lot more to find out.  The Toshiba was lifted off the mount, and brought into the shop.
Once I took it apart, this is what I found:

20260408_214534_Rusty_Magnet - Copy.jpg

Several of those magnets have rusted.  There are other signs that water got inside the case.  In the winter, the water, in the form of frost, infiltrated all of the gaps and spaces between the magnets and the rotor.  When corrosion started, the particles coming free stayed stuck, but CAKED in ways that lifted the magnets off of the surface of the rotor.  The worst of the magnets (shown here) has a lot of magnetic particles packed underneath it, probably from repeated cycles of ice forming, expanding, rusting, and leaving the particles to pry up the magnet for the next cycle.  Once the magnet was pried up enough, it started scraping on the stator.

So I took it all apart, cleaned it up best I could, and then bedded down the magnets with epoxy, and replaced all of the screws.  Plus a few coats of paint to keep water from seeping in.  While I did this I also DECOGGED the damn thing, too.  I've been listening to it hum for years now.

20260419_154125_Painted - Copy.jpg

With all that done, the shaft turns virtually cog-free, and it's being put back on the tower soon. Hopefully back in operation this weekend.
6.5 kW PV solar array + 12k Sol-Ark Inverter
10ft (3m) diameter custom-built wind turbine

Re: I finally finished my Toshiba motor conversion!

Reply #1
Water is an insidious enemy and even on a sealed motor moisture WILL get in!

I have electronics at the tops of my ham radio towers... So many seal the box which is a mistake. A weep hole for condensation to find a way out is a must!

On a motor conversion I would add a weep hole in the lowest point of the case... doesn't have to be big, I use a 1/16 inch drill bit to add it... water will accumulate and as the motor heats it will expand the air in the case pushing the water out.

 

Re: I finally finished my Toshiba motor conversion!

Reply #2
You've hit on the root-cause already!
The case of this motor is TEFC, totally enclosed fan cooled, and it doesn't have any vents or openings.
As I was looking for evidence of water, I noticed that the case was drilled for a lifting lug, but I hadn't installed the lug.  Peering down into that hole, I can see the stator!
Furthermore, the case does have a weeping hole, but only one the rear end of the stator, not the front end. 
So - a definite point of entry and not enough ways to exit. 
6.5 kW PV solar array + 12k Sol-Ark Inverter
10ft (3m) diameter custom-built wind turbine

Re: I finally finished my Toshiba motor conversion!

Reply #3
I see pics of ham radio operators opening sealed boxes to find an electronics swimming pool... one guy ruined a $400 preamp...

And it is worse in cold climates with temp cycling day to night... cooling at night causes a vacuum in the box, damper night air gets sucked in with no easy way out after the water condenses

Re: I finally finished my Toshiba motor conversion!

Reply #4
The more time that goes by and the more I see and learn, the more I think i got really lucky with my motor conversion.  It's never been opened up since 2018 or whenever i put it up.  I grease bearings once a year, and work on the blades from time to time, but otherwise it is great. 

I know i thought about a drain/weep hole when i put it up, but I don't even know if I left one open or not.  We haven't had hardly any rain since 2018, so that helps i guess.

So what did you do to decog?  Did you get it back up and running?  I see I'm pretty late on this thread? 

Re: I finally finished my Toshiba motor conversion!

Reply #5
So what did you do to decog?  Did you get it back up and running?  I see I'm pretty late on this thread?

Better late than never.
To see the whole TORTUOUS process of decogging it, compare photos 1+2 with photo 3 above.  In 3 words: I rotated the magnets.  That's it.  I bumped them with a scrap of wood. I could have done that, so long ago, and not listened to it hum for years.

Not gluing them down and sealing the rotor is what led to the rusting.  That's taken care of, too.

It's back on the tower ready to go up.  Opportunities to raise it have been few.  I spent the weekend in the US, and on other days came home from work too late, or it's been too windy for a tower move.
6.5 kW PV solar array + 12k Sol-Ark Inverter
10ft (3m) diameter custom-built wind turbine

Re: I finally finished my Toshiba motor conversion!

Reply #6
Another thing going on here-
I'm looking for a replacement Morningstar TS-60 Tristar charge controller.  I did something stupid and cycled my batteries on to the Sol-Ark inverter without first throwing the breaker on the Tristar to keep it offline.  I already learned the hard way last year that when I do that, the Sol-Ark checks new batteries coming on-line by ramping up a recharge current to measure how they respond.  With the Tristar still in the circuit, the voltage goes up to 60V and it flips on the diversion control.  That makes the Sol-Ark think "oh jeez they're really badly discharged, let's give 'em more".  Putting the Tristar into an overvoltage condition at the same time as it's dumping current at 100%.

Last month was the second time I did this (thick skull).  I made the situation worse by not shutting down the Sol-Ark immediately, and instead throwing the breaker on the Tristar.  That cut off its input current which probably left no "inertia" to absorb current spikes as it shut off its diversion load.  So it's dead.

I've sourced one at an electric wholesaler (EECOL, you might know them). As of yesterday I thought they had it in town, but today I found out they only have one in Edmonton, and they expect me to run around to one of their warehouses to fill out a credit application before bringing it to Calgary.  Way of doing business that started dying out in the 1990's. Do these guys seriously not know who their competitors are?  I want to buy local, but the locals are like this...
6.5 kW PV solar array + 12k Sol-Ark Inverter
10ft (3m) diameter custom-built wind turbine

Re: I finally finished my Toshiba motor conversion!

Reply #7
Oddly enough, we have the same eecol electric in Medicine Hat and every time i try to deal with them, my results are the same.  It's like unless you have an electrical business, they don't want anything to do with you.  

Nice, simple decogging.  I like that. 

On the TS-60, Charge Solar has one listed for $310 but only stock in Barrie.  It says call for availability in Calgary.  I can inquire if you are stuck.

I have a brand new TS-45 on the shelf you can have for $100 if it would work for you.  I bought it for some 48v systems i was selling at the time, but ended up liking victron controllers better for that application. 

Re: I finally finished my Toshiba motor conversion!

Reply #8
On the TS-60, Charge Solar has one listed for $310 but only stock in Barrie.  It says call for availability in Calgary.  I can inquire if you are stuck.
I have a brand new TS-45 on the shelf you can have for $100 if it would work for you.  I bought it for some 48v systems i was selling at the time, but ended up liking victron controllers better for that application.

A rep from Charge Solar just reached out to me, after I submitted a query on the Morningstar website... might actually be from Barrie, too, judging from the phone number.

The TS45 has less margin for error, but the idea of having a backup is very appealing.  I think you've made a deal.  I'll send an e-mail.

Umm... In a world where knowing everyone's name is easy, I have no excuse, but... your initials are DJ, right?
6.5 kW PV solar array + 12k Sol-Ark Inverter
10ft (3m) diameter custom-built wind turbine

Re: I finally finished my Toshiba motor conversion!

Reply #9
Yes, DJ are my initials.

Re: I finally finished my Toshiba motor conversion!

Reply #10
Oddly enough, we have the same eecol electric in Medicine Hat and every time i try to deal with them, my results are the same.  It's like unless you have an electrical business, they don't want anything to do with you.  

Nice, simple decogging.  I like that. 

On the TS-60, Charge Solar has one listed for $310 but only stock in Barrie.  It says call for availability in Calgary.  I can inquire if you are stuck.

I have a brand new TS-45 on the shelf you can have for $100 if it would work for you.  I bought it for some 48v systems i was selling at the time, but ended up liking victron controllers better for that application.

That TS-45 is tempting but shipping from Canada is outrageous right now, plus dealing with tariffs/customs...  I used to sell some astronomy accessories into Canada, a group who combined orders to cut shipping costs. Now shipping is MORE than the cost of goods...  and I haven't sold anything into Canada for years(this has nothing to do with current politics, it is a long running problem trying to ship goods cross border, small tiny businesses like mine can't afford it! It goes back 15+ years...)

Re: I finally finished my Toshiba motor conversion!

Reply #11
Slight off-topic . OP send me a nag-o-gram if I need to stop
Here at work we have great equipment coming in from the 10 sheep-powered mower's area. 
When it comes to sending them back for repairs, phew!! the paperwork involved is 21/2 nightmares!!
I finally got them to allow me to do warranty repairs here in our office.
My needle-point temp controlled soldering iron was worth every shinny dime I could find!!

Back on-topic
I recently gotten back into my old hobby of repairing 4-cycle internal combustion devices. I've also begun to run into issue where a silicone based gasket has/had the nasty smell. I wasn't sure what/where it was coming from since none of the cylinders had standing wet sludge in them. NOW I KNOW TOO!!
I'm old school in that I still use cork and a hammer to make my own gaskets, so I'm glad I still do now.

SparWeb;
I do remember on the original forum that several founders did the same of skewing the magnets to lessen the cogging problems. If I remember correctly, this wasn't a big problem until the Sumerian-Cobalt <-sp? and higher powered mags started coming down in prices. I don't thinks this is/was ever a problem with ceramic mags.
I could be wrong.

Cheers
Bruce

Re: I finally finished my Toshiba motor conversion!

Reply #12
I do remember on the original forum that several founders did the same of skewing the magnets to lessen the cogging problems. If I remember correctly, this wasn't a big problem until the Sumerian-Cobalt <-sp? and higher powered mags started coming down in prices. I don't thinks this is/was ever a problem with ceramic mags.
I could be wrong.
Cheers
Bruce
Exactly.  I had already learned my lesson by then, even at the time I built that motor conversion.  Maybe 2010, people like Zubbly and Peter Dingemans and Jerry had it all figured out.  I just had to do what I was told...
6.5 kW PV solar array + 12k Sol-Ark Inverter
10ft (3m) diameter custom-built wind turbine

Re: I finally finished my Toshiba motor conversion!

Reply #13
@bigrockcandymountain,
e-mail sent.
6.5 kW PV solar array + 12k Sol-Ark Inverter
10ft (3m) diameter custom-built wind turbine

Re: I finally finished my Toshiba motor conversion!

Reply #14
...  I used to sell some astronomy accessories into Canada, a group who combined orders to cut shipping costs.

I was one of those customers!  Still have the Bahtinov mask for my scope.  Still use it, too.  Always got the stars pin-point sharp.
6.5 kW PV solar array + 12k Sol-Ark Inverter
10ft (3m) diameter custom-built wind turbine

Re: I finally finished my Toshiba motor conversion!

Reply #15
...  I used to sell some astronomy accessories into Canada, a group who combined orders to cut shipping costs.

I was one of those customers!  Still have the Bahtinov mask for my scope.  Still use it, too.  Always got the stars pin-point sharp.

to bad they got so stupid on shipping up there! USPS went nuts on pricing...